U.S. do be a "small" country, at least for its media.
After China won the women's gymnastics, especially beat the American team, almost all the media in States focus on the "underage problem" of Chinese women team. They try to figure out any possible "evidence" to prove that those girls who attended this competition do not fit the age limitation decided by IFG (International Federation of Gymnastics). To achieve this goal, some journalists even try to "trap" Chinese gymnastics athelets by their questions. Questions such as "Where did your 15th birthday party hold on?" were asked, which were laughed at by journalists in other countries.
It looks that Americans are really jealous of China's success -- the only thing I can infer from tons of "news", or actually I should say "stories", blaming Chinese athelets are too young to attend Olympic Games. It might be acceptable if it is a chick talk just between some American women athelets, but when it appears on so many headlines of American newspapers, I do think it shows some negtive attitude of Americans.
Like a former French forgein minister said, a country can be named as a "great country" only when its value are accepted by the world. At this point, I do consider this jealousness of U.S. makes it look so small. By the way, if there were two kids competing with each other and the youngger one won. How would you feel about when the elder one were crying and weeping "Mummy mummy, I cannot win this because he/she is so young~"?
Age can't be the effect in the gymnastics, and the ability is point to win this game~~
Maybe the U.S. team won't to believe this.
the U.S sometimes are really acting not that clever enough.
Actually, age does have a correlation with what your body is physically capable of doing. While being older MAY mean you have more experience, being younger OFTEN means your body is smaller, lighter, and more flexible...all attributes ideal for gymnastics.
You also need to remember that it was the Chinese news media that first questioned the ages of the Chinese gymnasts, not the American media. I do think many Americans may be upset that they lost, but the news reports that I've read often focus on how the Americans made so many mistakes in the end and therefore lost. I also think it is legitimate and reasonable for them to question the ages of the Chinese gymnasts. They, and many other countries, were questioning this BEFORE the Olympics, not just after.
The fact is, however, that the IOC accepted China's proof of their age, despite the fact that such documents MAY be forged AND despite the fact that the Chinese own media suggested that they are underage. If China is certain that the gymnasts meet the minimum legal age OR if China is lying but they know they can avoid the consequences, then nothing matters. China will have her gold and the United States can only eat sour grapes. No one questions that China's gymnasts performed better. The only question that Americans and many other countries have asked is whether China competed legally and fairly.
I do not think your post here offers a reasonable perspective of the situation or the people involved. You can either choose to interpret all skepticism as a personal insult to the Chinese or you can try to understand that skepticism and respond to it with something more mature than insulting others of being "small." If you want to blame someone, blame the Chinese media for betraying China and causing other countries to question the gymnasts' age. Ask yourself, are you SURE that you know FOR CERTAIN that these gymnasts meet the legal minimum age for the Olympics?
Personally, I always think age is just a number :)
Thanks for your long comments. :)
Actually, my point is blaming the jealousness of Americans, or say, American medias.
Since the IFG has certified ages of Chinese athelets, personally, I do not think it is necessay to doubt it again and again. However, those medias in States keep doing that continually. That is why I consider they are jealous, and also, that is the reason to say they are small.
Considering about the respect, I think we do respect other teams with our true ages and ability. Unfortunately, the behavior of American medias' don't show any respect to us especially after the judgement made by IFG.
I know you're blaming the jealousy of Americans or American media. I am responding precisely to that. My point is that one of the main reasons why the Americans and other countries are questioning the ages of the Chinese gymnasts is because Chinese media suggested that they were too young. Read: http://www.bullog.cn/blogs/wangxiaoshan/archives/167019.aspx
The only two possibilities:
1) The Chinese gymnasts are too young and the Chinese government broke the rules; or...
2) The Chinese media created this problem for China because of their sloppy journalism.
Furthermore, the reason why there is so much controversy is because many people do not completely trust the Chinese government OR the IFG. As I said above, documents can be faked and people can turn a blind eye for political reasons. China has a reputation for cheating (just like America has a reputation for being arrogant), so naturally people will not trust China (just like you insist on criticizing the Americans).
I'm afraid you've missed the points I was making, especially what I said about "respect." I am disappointed by this post because I had hoped ifgogo would have had a better understanding of why this issue is so big and why foreigners feel the way they do. Unfortunately, this is an example of a Chinese person who does not understand foreigners, but still likes to demand that foreigners understand them.
Judging by your words, you have not actually considered why this is such a big deal to foreigners. Like a child, you think they are upset simply and only because they are all jealous. That is very shallow and shows you neither understand nor care to understand foreigners. That is a good example of Chinese arrogance.
This can't all be blamed on "jealous Americans"... too many reputable Chinese sources have said the girl's 13
http://cmp.hku.hk/2008/08/15/1177/
That is intellectually dishonest. Age always matters. Chinese society worships age. Is 5000 years of Chinese civilization just a number?
To say "age is just a number" in this situation gives other people the impression that Chinese people do not respect rules nor do they respect other people. Enough foreigners feel that way about the Chinese, let's not continue giving them that impression. How do you expect others to respect us when we say things like what you did that do not respect them?
5000 years is not an age but a history.
It's hard to imagine some one living such long. :P
5000 years is the age of Chinese civilization, culture, and history. Are you going to continue arguing semantics with me or are you going to address the issue that younger age can be a distinct advantage in a sport like gymnastics?
http://news.imagethief.com/blogs/china/archive/2008/08/14/gymnasts-now-and-then.aspx
We know that younger and younger athletes are being used in gymnastics. The question and concerns is whether anyone is using people who are too young according to the rules. I'm afraid we may never know and I'm afraid you're more busy trying to insult Americans than you are trying to resolve the controversy over their ages. Like I said before, you should be criticizing the Chinese media, not the American media that believed and trusted the Chinese media. You should be demanding that the Chinese media never report anything that may cause problems for China, and that all Chinese media should only report things that make China look good. Remember, it was the Chinese news media that first said the Chinese gymnasts were too young.
Maybe you do not care about doing what is most appropriate for this situation and are only using this as an excuse to attack Americans?
Thanks for your attention to my article and share so much information with me.
Actually I think we are dicussing about two different aspects of one issue. Shall we stop here and listen to some other opinions?
Read this:
http://www.isaacmao.com/2/2008/08/blog-post_15.html
For English (since this is an English blog):
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/08/16/china-pick-your-truth-on-he-kexins-age/
Yes, the aspect you are focusing on is different from the aspect I am focusing on AND what I think you SHOULD be focusing on. The best way to resolve this issue is NOT to focus on OPINIONS but on the FACTS and EVIDENCE relevant to the matter. You have yet to explain why you think it is necessary to insult Americans by calling them a "small" country without mentioning the fact that the issue of the gymnasts' age was first questioned by Chinese media.
Why are you criticizing the Americans for believing what the Chinese news media said?
Don't blame the U.S for its media.
I don't think he's attacking. Don't worry, maybe he's using some improper words, and that may mislead the critical readers like you.
Personally, I think some media in China is much worse than oversea media :)
Did you receive my reply to his post? Is it waiting for moderation? There were two links in it that I wanted jichuan to check out but I think two links in a comment automatically get put into the moderation queue for WordPress.
I think it is pretty clear by now that at least one of the Chinese gymnasts was underaged. So no matter how we look at this, there was cheating going on and that is the whole point.
Jichuan should read this:
http://www.pekingduck.org/2008/08/the-gymnast-controversy-chinas-censors-at-work/
In addition to the earlier links to GVO and Isaac Mao I submitted, I'm curious to see what Jichuan thinks about the situation OTHER than his contempt for Americans and American media or America as a "small" country. Surely, he must have more substantial insight into the actual issues of this matter than his superficial antagonism towards the United States, right? Does he even care about the real issues of this case?
The actual issue is we should give the IFG authority that it should have. Medias may make mistakes, no matter Chinese medias or American ones; bloggers may make mistakes, some people may release something wrong; we may also make mistakes, like how can you prove these links you offer containing the "truth" or "evidence". It is very easy to make some fake pages such as those used as fishing ones. Therefore, we need the IFG to make the decision on this problem, not you, not me.
However, after the International Federal of Gymnastics has made the judgement, after the the IFG said there's no problem with Chinese women athelets' ages, American medias are sitll questioning the age of He, Kexin. Why? Does it mean the IFG is not trustable? If that is true, if we should not trust this orgainization, thus who should we trust? On the other side, why cann't we beleive this international orgainization? As I known, there' re a lot of American people working in IFG. It's not containing Chinese only. So do you think those American officers will help Chinese atheletes to use "fake" ages?
Finally, assuming this gold medal was got by American team, do you think American medias will still blame Chinese athelets are too young?
The IFG is a falliable organization like all organizations. Its authority lies only in the authority granted to it by the people. If the IFG is found to have failed in doing what it was meant to do, then hopefully it will get the media attention it deserves that will hopefully lead to the reform and change necessary to prevent future failures. If people (not just the Americans) do not make a big deal about perceived and potential problems, nothing would change and problems would persist.
In response to Jichuan's final question: The foreign media made a big deal about the China gymnasts' age BEFORE the Olympics began and BEFORE the Chinese won gold. This does not mean that Americans or foreigners are NOT jealous, but it does mean that they are not making a big deal about it ONLY because they lost and are jealous. This was a big issue before anyone won. I believe that Jichuan trying to frame this issue as "jealous small Americans" does a disservice to the real meaningful issues involved and does not solve any problems. In fact, it creates problems by suggesting that Chinese people are willing to immediately ignore the actual complaint and just call other people jealous for any concerns they have. This is NOT an image I want us Chinese to have.
I agree with this comment of you... partly.
I am really surprised to read a post attacking the US, calling the US a small country, saying the US is making up stories about underage competitors out of jealousy of China's success, etc., on a blog like this. IfGogo has previously been so good at finding a middle ground between east and west, and encouraging dialogue and respectful differences. It is not easy to write articles including both Chinese and foreign perspective, but please try harder than this. I'm really disappointed.
Hi Meg. Sincerely, I am very sorry if this post on ifgogo does hurt the people from the U.S.
I knew Jichuan before and I believe he's not attacking the U.S on purpose. I think maybe he's trying to express something else rather than attacking. But unfortunately some wrong words/expressions were used, that makes you think he's attacking. Personally, at first I also took for granted that Jichuan was just joking about the U.S and be a little unhappy with the trapping question to the young girl who won the gold. So replied to him simply and went away from this post. I should have to consider the words that been used but I did not. That's my fault.
As you know, this is a team blog and every author can say whatever he wants to say. Every commentator can say what he wants to say too. So I don't think it proper to simply remove this post. Just let the comments/post be here :)
BTW, the author management still has a long way to go. I'm afraid that there might be even further misunderstandings like things brought out by this post in the future. As a founder and a featured blogger here, I have the responsibility to reduce such "event" as few as possible. And I would like to hear your response and criticism as well.
As for the age problem, not only the media, but also me stayed critical. You may take a look at another post by me - Hypocrisy culture around us?
Bela Karolyi put it very simply: "There is an age limit rule. If any country wants younger girls to compete, let us do away with the age limit rule".
You saw that too, eh?
I agree, though I actually think there's something to be said about the Olympics being a sport for the adults and letting children compete in their own Olympics.
他们是神经病，不要脸的一群家伙
Anyway, the age problem is not a problem now. Just forget about the arguments, and let's give each other some more understandings.
http://www.nbcolympics.com/gymnastics/news/newsid=253637.html#rogge+paperwork+supports+chinas+claims
Rogge: Paperwork shows Chinese gymnasts are not underage
Posted Saturday, August 23, 2008 11:48 AM ET
The Chinese gymnastics team poses for a picture with their medals before a news conference at the Samsung Pavilion at the 2008 Beijing Olympics.
Associated Press
The Chinese gymnastics team poses for a picture with their medals before a news conference at the Samsung Pavilion at the 2008 Beijing Olympics.
BEIJING (AP) -- The investigation goes on, so does the wait, yet the IOC indicated Sunday that a reshuffling of Olympic gymnastics medals isn't likely.
Yes, this competition really was and probably will remain ... one for the ages.
International Olympic Committee president Jacques Rogge said paperwork appears to support what China has been saying all along: that all six members of its gold medal women's gymnastics team were old enough to compete at the Beijing Games. Gymnastics officials were still poring over the documents submitted by the Chinese in response to a request for more information on the birthdates of He Kexin, Yang Yilin, Jiang Yuyuan, DENG Linlin and Li Shanshan.
Aw, one of the main complaints was that people did not trust the paperwork submitted by the Chinese in the first place. Notice in the article you quoted that it says clearly "the investigation goes on" and "officials were still poring over the documents submitted by the Chinese." Furthermore, another main complaint was that people did not really trust the IOC anymore either since many people feel the IOC intentionally allowed China to do many things China promised the world it would not do, or allowed China to NOT do what it promised it WOULD do. The issue is complicated because the distrust is not just against the Chinese but also against the IOC, and especially Rogge.
Now, there may indeed be proof that the gymnasts' ages are at least 16 but at this point, it is doubtful that anyone will trust "documents" that the Chinese government provides since people fully expect China to provide evidence that supports their defense. If there was evidence that their ages were under 16, do you really think the Chinese government would provide it? Don't be ridiculous.
And that is the main problem, the loss of trust and face. The whole reason why there was a controversy in the first place is because China has a history of bending or breaking the rules. Whether the Chinese made the gymnasts older for the Olympics or previously made the gymnasts younger for local competitions, both show that Chinese society often lies about age in formal official matters for various selfish reasons. Think about George W. Bush and weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The difference is thankfully this is not about war, this is just about a sport competition and that it is much easier and safer to find real proof and evidence in the United States than in China where the laws and authorities protect the government and not the people.
THAT, sadly, is the understanding that people are getting. This entire incident makes us Chinese people lose face and we can only blame ourselves. Either we cheated now or we cheated before or we had bad media reporting now or bad media reporting before. This entire problem was our own fault and now we're facing the consequences of it.
LoL, sometimes even when foreigners want to prove that China has improved and will fulfill their promises, they are met with disappointment: http://shanghaiist.com/2008/08/27/one_thing_is_clear_you_cannot_prote.php
Manuela Parrino, an Italian woman who has lived in Beijing for the last 41/2 years said she was "fed up with all the visiting journalists talking negatively about China." She decided to prove China's commitment to free speech during the Olympic Games by applying to protest against pollution, with her 4 year old son, in one of the designated zones. After 9 hours, over 2 days, of officials trying to dissuade her cause, and parrying almost nonsensical questions from the local police officials, Manuela's application was unsuccessful because her son was deemed "too young".
How incredibly disappointing.